Bill Sprague's Video catalog now online

[Bruce Calvert]

Bill Sprague's catalog of silent and sound PD videos and DVDs is posted
online now at http://vtvideoclassic.com/silent.html . His prices are very
cheap, and he does have some rare films. Has anyone ordered anything from
him? Do his silents have musical tracks?

[Hal Erickson]

Post by Bruce Calvert
Bill Sprague's catalog of silent and sound PD videos and DVDs is posted
online now at http://vtvideoclassic.com/silent.html . His prices are very
cheap, and he does have some rare films. Has anyone ordered anything from
him? Do his silents have musical tracks?
--
Bruce Calvert

I used to order from him back when he issued mailings. Quality varies, but
generally quite good, and yes there are
musical tracks. Also, he's extremely reliable.
I'm glad he's back. Were it not for Bill Sprague, I'd have been denied the
tacky pleasures of Snub Pollard and Marvin Loback (whose Laurel and Hardy
ripoffs are surprisingly funny on their own merits!)

--Hal E

[Jerry]

Post by Bruce Calvert
Bill Sprague's catalog of silent and sound PD videos and DVDs is posted
online now athttp://vtvideoclassic.com/silent.html. �His prices are very
cheap, and he does have some rare films. �Has anyone ordered anything from
him? �Do his silents have musical tracks?
--
Bruce Calvert

Not recently. But several years ago we set up a trade - I sent him
about 10 or 12 decent VHS copies (which appeared in his catalog, of
course) and in return got the same number of awful, nearly
unwatchable films. Which I promptly sent back. And he was quite
indignant. A couple of years ago I got a card from him wanting to do
another trade. Now, that's audacity. When I pointed out that he
still owed me some, that ended the discussion.

I would just say this - caveat emptor. We all trust the KINOs,
Milestones, Sheppards, etc. But when it comes to others who are not
depending on this for a living, and they put out anything they get
their hands on and refuse to make any attempt to quality rate them, I
am now very skeptical. I have my collection on an Alpha 5 database/
excel spreadsheet too and I've traded some titles over the years. But
every tape/DVD is rated from Poor to Excellent. Pretty ruthlessly,
actually.

He has some titles I'd like to get my hands on - if anyone can tell me
which ones are really good quality, I would be tempted to try to get
my original "investment" back......haha......

Jerry

[Vitaphone]

Yes, we do have Milestone, Kino, Lobster, etc. but time and again we need to
turn to home-grown vendors to get what we really want to see --- instead of
simply what's out there.

Much as I'm fond of "The Love Trap," "Uncle Tom's Cabin" and "The Man Who
Laughs," you're quite on your own --- and without much choice--- if you want
to see Mae Murray's talking version of "Peacock Alley," or Helen
Twelvetree's "Swing High."

These aren't high art, they weren't once deemed "lost," they're not the work
of a glamorous but obscure foreign director, they're not historical in a
landmark film sense, they don't feature a performer who's today's favorite
flavor of "Old Movie Star," and in truth they're barely notable in any way
beyond being purely entertaining bits of American film history that have
managed to beat the odds and survive.

So, if the picture and sound is awful --- well, it's still better than
nothing at all. Vastly better, in fact.

I can understand why films like these aren't likely candidates for release
by a Milestone or Kino, they lack all the above mentioned elements as well
as any sort of marketing hook --- but maybe some day --- years down the
road, when someone asks "What'll we release next?," attention will be turned
to the films such as these --- standard, work-a-day American studio product.
By then, they might be so forgotten as to seem important again!

Jeff







"Jerry" <***@aol.com> wrote in message news:***@j27g2000cwj.googlegroups.com...


I would just say this - caveat emptor. We all trust the KINOs,
Milestones, Sheppards, etc. But when it comes to others who are not
depending on this for a living, and they put out anything they get
their hands on and refuse to make any attempt to quality rate them, I
am now very skeptical. I have my collection on an Alpha 5 database/
excel spreadsheet too and I've traded some titles over the years. But
every tape/DVD is rated from Poor to Excellent. Pretty ruthlessly,
actually.

He has some titles I'd like to get my hands on - if anyone can tell me
which ones are really good quality, I would be tempted to try to get
my original "investment" back......haha......

Jerry

[Tom]

Vitaphone:

I agree. Beggars can't be choosers, and at this point the only way to
see some of these films is pure submission to what is available, and
in any form.
Some quality issues are easily fixable but then again it comes down to
something very simple...time is money, and if there will be no huge
financial reaping from doing restorations en masse, other than
circulating these things out of pure love, why bother?
When someone complains about poor quality, I chuckle. These usually
aren't the same people spending hundreds out of pocket for a film
print in as-is condition.

[Jerry]

Post by Vitaphone
These aren't high art, they weren't once deemed "lost," they're not the work
of a glamorous but obscure foreign director, they're not historical in a
landmark film sense, they don't feature a performer who's today's favorite
flavor of "Old Movie Star," and in truth they're barely notable in any �way
beyond being purely entertaining bits of American film history that have
managed to beat the odds and survive.

Sorry, Jeff, but I'm going to agree and then disagree. You're surely
right that they aren't high art, etc. But then for me, at least,
that's the problem. If they were one of the real masterpieces of
silent cinema, I could probably sit through it. But......

Post by Vitaphone
So, if the picture and sound is awful --- well, it's still better than
nothing at all. �Vastly better, in fact.

they aren't. I just don't have the patience sit through an hour and a
half of silly plot, often unheard of actors, taped down for the 10th
time from a print that obviously wasn't that good to start with. And
with no soundtrack. Or worse, Schubert's Unfinished Symphony dubbed
in. Thanks, but no thanks.

I know we could debate both sides of this issue. It's not even the
money anymore - I looked at his website and see that they are dirt
cheap now. (Do you get what you pay for as a rule??) I guess my real
point was, it would be nice if vendors like Sprague would have the
courtesy to quality rate their stuff so that unwary (or even wary)
buyers would have some idea what they're getting for their $. Is that
too much to ask??

[r***@earthlink.net]

Post by Jerry

Post by Vitaphone
These aren't high art, they weren't once deemed "lost," they're not the work
of a glamorous but obscure foreign director, they're not historical in a
landmark film sense, they don't feature a performer who's today's favorite
flavor of "Old Movie Star," and in truth they're barely notable in any ?way
beyond being purely entertaining bits of American film history that have
managed to beat the odds and survive.

Sorry, Jeff, but I'm going to agree and then disagree. You're surely
right that they aren't high art, etc. But then for me, at least,
that's the problem. If they were one of the real masterpieces of
silent cinema, I could probably sit through it. But......

Post by Vitaphone
So, if the picture and sound is awful --- well, it's still better than
nothing at all. ?Vastly better, in fact.

they aren't. I just don't have the patience sit through an hour and a
half of silly plot, often unheard of actors, taped down for the 10th
time from a print that obviously wasn't that good to start with. And
with no soundtrack. Or worse, Schubert's Unfinished Symphony dubbed
in. Thanks, but no thanks.
I know we could debate both sides of this issue. It's not even the
money anymore - I looked at his website and see that they are dirt
cheap now. (Do you get what you pay for as a rule??) I guess my real
point was, it would be nice if vendors like Sprague would have the
courtesy to quality rate their stuff so that unwary (or even wary)
buyers would have some idea what they're getting for their $. Is that
too much to ask??

For what you're paying for it, it probably is.

I was going to happily ignore the whinings of this spoiled rotten
group of babies again, life is too short, and I gave you what for a
few weeks ago(and enjoyed your attempts afterward to figure out a way
to "save" the silent video business, which as usual came to nothing
but a revelation as to just how feeble Fonvielle's grasp is of the
reality of the situation is), but when I see one person calling Bill
Sprague a "scumbag" while cowardly hiding behind a non-de-plume, and
another whining about his virgin eyes being offended by less-than
stellar quality and the lack of the finest accompanist for each and
every minor film he is fortunate to be seeing at all, I know it's time
to come down here again.

I have known Bill Sprague for years, and he is basically a collector
who is willing to trade stuff and share what he has for next to
nothing in cost. He makes available some rather rare titles that will
most likely never be available from any larger venue, and if you call
him, and ask him what the quality of his material on a particular
title is, he will tell you. I have always found him to be honest in
his dealings, and passionate in his love for the material. He has
helped myself and many others in the Silent Comedy Mafia greatly over
the years in our research by providing some very rare comedy titles
that we were just happy to see in any form. I can also say that he is
definitely not making any sort of profit from what he does.

So throw your pablum on the floor again, how dare this Sprague fellow
offer you the chance to see 80-plus year old silent films no one care
enough about even to preserve. If it didn;t exactly look as we want to
see it, he should pay us back millions for offending our sensitive
sensibilities. I believe this Jerry person is the one so magnanimous
to offer a check to anyone willing to do something to preserve and
distribute silent films, because he couldn't be bothered to get out
from behind his keyboard and do it himself, why don't you give it to
Bill Sprague, who does what he can to get out what he gets his hands
on to those who wish to see it. He could then buy decent transfer
equipment and get better materials, and make them available for you to
whine about not being perfect. And he'd do it, because he care enough
about the stuff to share.

But until then, lets save the word "scumbag" for criminals and
politicians, not for people who do their best to advance the cause. No
one forces you to buy the stuff, I say again what you all need to
remember always:

None of you are actually entitled to see any of this stuff.

You are all really lucky to be seeing so much now for so cheap.

This could all change for the worse tomorrow just because you whine
like spoiled infants.

A quote I had in a conversation this week with one of the silent video
producers and distributors who even you whiners admire (and who will
remain nameless for obvious reasons), "There's no money in this, you
have to deal with a lot of jerks in the business, and the fans don't
even appreciate it, I'm getting close to chucking it and going back to
writing books".

Keep up the good work Guys.


RICHARD M ROBERTS

[John Aldrich]

Post by r***@earthlink.net
I was going to happily ignore the whinings of this spoiled rotten
group of babies again

<SNIP!>

Post by r***@earthlink.net
RICHARD M ROBERTS

Fuck you.

--John (who is sure he speaks for many on here)

[Fred]

On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 22:47:48 GMT, John Aldrich

Post by John Aldrich

Post by r***@earthlink.net
I was going to happily ignore the whinings of this spoiled rotten
group of babies again

<SNIP!>

Post by r***@earthlink.net
RICHARD M ROBERTS

Fuck you.
--John (who is sure he speaks for many on here)

Richard made a lot of very specific points and that's all you can say?
I've seen silent films with more words. Come on, what specifics do
you disagree with and why? Is it just that you took the "spoiled
rotten group of babies" line to be a personal insult? If so, please
point out one silent release on video (from anyone, anywhere, any
time), where there weren't complaints. I'm sure there must have been
one, but I can't think of what it may have been.

[John Aldrich]

Post by Fred
On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 22:47:48 GMT, John Aldrich

Post by John Aldrich

Post by r***@earthlink.net
I was going to happily ignore the whinings of this spoiled rotten
group of babies again

<SNIP!>

Post by r***@earthlink.net
RICHARD M ROBERTS

Fuck you.
--John (who is sure he speaks for many on here)

Richard made a lot of very specific points and that's all you can say?
I've seen silent films with more words. Come on, what specifics do
you disagree with and why? Is it just that you took the "spoiled
rotten group of babies" line to be a personal insult? If so, please
point out one silent release on video (from anyone, anywhere, any
time), where there weren't complaints. I'm sure there must have been
one, but I can't think of what it may have been.

Since you asked, Richard's insulting, smug and arrogant post is not
worthy of any response beyond the one I gave. Only a jerk of the
first order would be overbearing to the point of telling people that
"None of you are actually entitled to see any of this stuff".

As far as Bill Sprague and his like are concerned, the ones who are
all over ebay and the rest of the internet with garbage copies of
vintage films, it would be one thing if their ads had consumer
warnings about the dismal quality of their offerings. But, they
don't...which is deceptive at best and dishonest at worst.

I haven't dealt with Sprague specifically, but I know people who have
and I know his type. I have had people tell me outright lies about
what their source material was. And then when they are called on it,
the standard response is: "well, this material is rare, where else are
you going to see it?" As if that justifies the deceptive practices.
If they are motivated by the desire to share...then what is the
problem with being upfront about what the quality is?

I didn't see any disclaimers on Sprague's website, which strikes me as
deceptive and bogus.

Also, Richard predictably ignores the blatent rip offs of other
people's work that is offered on Sprague's website. Stealing is
stealing, no matter what kind of altruistic face you want to put on
it.

Of course Roberts defends him. Birds of a feather and all that.

I certainly don't need Richard to lecture me on why I should be happy
with DVDs that are made from unwatchable multigenerational VHS dupes
or to tell me that I am not entitled to expect anything more. He can
shove that right where it belongs.

-John A.

[Fred]

On Mon, 12 Mar 2007 03:48:36 GMT, John Aldrich

Post by John Aldrich
Since you asked, Richard's insulting, smug and arrogant post is not
worthy of any response beyond the one I gave. Only a jerk of the
first order would be overbearing to the point of telling people that
"None of you are actually entitled to see any of this stuff".

But no one IS entitled to it. You can *want* it, and wish for it, but
no one is guaranteed the right to it. At least I'm not aware of any
mention of it in the Constitution or Bill of Rights.

[Lloyd Fonvielle]

Post by Fred
But no one IS entitled to it. You can *want* it, and wish for it, but
no one is guaranteed the right to it. At least I'm not aware of any
mention of it in the Constitution or Bill of Rights.

You need to take another look at the Constitution -- which clearly
intended for copyright to apply to the actual authors of work (the
concept of a corporation being the "author" of a work would have been
risible to the Founding Fathers) and to extend for a very limited period.



Mar de Cortes Baja

www.mardecortesbaja.com <http://www.mardecortesbaja.com/blog>

[John Aldrich]

Post by Fred
On Mon, 12 Mar 2007 03:48:36 GMT, John Aldrich

Post by John Aldrich
Since you asked, Richard's insulting, smug and arrogant post is not
worthy of any response beyond the one I gave. Only a jerk of the
first order would be overbearing to the point of telling people that
"None of you are actually entitled to see any of this stuff".

But no one IS entitled to it. You can *want* it, and wish for it, but
no one is guaranteed the right to it. At least I'm not aware of any
mention of it in the Constitution or Bill of Rights.

The Bill Of Rights doesn't mention my right to buy a book at Border's
either. If I were to do so and all the pages were blurry, I would
have ever right to be annoyed about it and I don't need a moron like
Richard telling me I'm not entitled to read the book.

--John

[Lloyd Fonvielle]

Post by John Aldrich
I certainly don't need Richard to lecture me on why I should be happy
with DVDs that are made from unwatchable multigenerational VHS dupes
or to tell me that I am not entitled to expect anything more. He can
shove that right where it belongs.

I would respectfully suggest that Richard Roberts' attitudes condemn
themselves -- they don't require any additional insults . . . though I
certainly understand the impulse.





Mar de Cortes Baja

www.mardecortesbaja.com <http://www.mardecortesbaja.com/blog>

[John Aldrich]

On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 21:08:41 -0700, Lloyd Fonvielle

Post by Lloyd Fonvielle

Post by John Aldrich
I certainly don't need Richard to lecture me on why I should be happy
with DVDs that are made from unwatchable multigenerational VHS dupes
or to tell me that I am not entitled to expect anything more. He can
shove that right where it belongs.

I would respectfully suggest that Richard Roberts' attitudes condemn
themselves -- they don't require any additional insults . . . though I
certainly understand the impulse.
Mar de Cortes Baja
www.mardecortesbaja.com <http://www.mardecortesbaja.com/blog>

You are aboslutely right, of course. I apologize for my knee jerk
reaction. In the future I will keep my responses to Richard's posts
to myself.

--John A.

[Lloyd Fonvielle]

Post by John Aldrich
You are aboslutely right, of course. I apologize for my knee jerk
reaction. In the future I will keep my responses to Richard's posts
to myself.

Well, I think his posts merit a public response -- I just think it makes
sense to leave the low road to him. He's welcome to it, as far as I'm
concerned, and seems very comfortable there.





Mar de Cortes Baja

www.mardecortesbaja.com <http://www.mardecortesbaja.com/blog>

[Jerry]

Post by John Aldrich
I haven't dealt with Sprague specifically, but I know people who have
and I know his type. �I have had people tell me outright lies about
what their source material was. �And then when they are called on it,
the standard response is: "well, this material is rare, where else are
you going to see it?" �As if that justifies the deceptive practices.
If they are motivated by the desire to share...then what is the
problem with being upfront about what the quality is?

Right on,John. And that has been my point from the start. Are there
folks in our hobby lacking in integrity? How much time does it take
to add one column to a spreadsheet or database and add an "E" or "V"
or "G" or "F" or "P" (translation for those not interested in quality
= Excellent, Very Good, Good.......well, you get the idea.......tough
thing, being upfront and honest) ?? I'm just a collector too and
I've traded my share of tapes over the years and I would be
embarrassed to swap a tape from John that was a pristine copy for one
which is barely watchable - unless he knows up front that that's what
he's asked for. If Bill is so anxious to tell you the quality on the
phone, why isn't he willing to spend a couple of hours and put the
same information on his website. Or in his Classic Images ads?

Yeah, I haven't forgotten that he owes me a box of tapes. I really
don't appreciate being stiffed. I didn't mention this before, but
since I have been now labeled as a whiner anyway, I'll tell you the
rest of the story. I sent the tapes. And my list. And THEN was
informed that some of the titles on my list were not part of his
"trading" stock. Ah yes, how nice of you to mention that up front.
And then would he comment on the quality of the other things I had
asked for? Uh-Uh.

Someone else alluded to the fact that I had offered some money for
film restoration and couldn't bother to do it myself - some snide
remark about getting out from behind my keyboard....... OK, here's my
profile - I'm 71 years old, retired and enjoying my leisure. And my
hobbies. I had a quadruple coronary bypass 16 years ago so I might be
living on borrowed time as it is. I don't have the time or the
energy to get into the film restoration business. I would love to be
helpful in some way. If I were a decent pianist, I'd offer to do
soundtracks - but I don't play that well. If I were near an archive,
I'd gladly volunteer whatever talents - computer? - whatever. But I'm
not within even a thousand miles. And so I offered the one thing that
I do have and that's a little extra cash for the cause. And I
frankly believe that if enough of us were willing to put our money
where our mouths seem to be, we could make things happen. I'll
happily support that charge, but I can't lead it.

Jerry

[Lloyd Fonvielle]

Post by Jerry
Someone else alluded to the fact that I had offered some money for
film restoration and couldn't bother to do it myself - some snide
remark about getting out from behind my keyboard....... OK, here's my
profile - I'm 71 years old, retired and enjoying my leisure. And my
hobbies. I had a quadruple coronary bypass 16 years ago so I might be
living on borrowed time as it is. I don't have the time or the
energy to get into the film restoration business. I would love to be
helpful in some way. If I were a decent pianist, I'd offer to do
soundtracks - but I don't play that well. If I were near an archive,
I'd gladly volunteer whatever talents - computer? - whatever. But I'm
not within even a thousand miles. And so I offered the one thing that
I do have and that's a little extra cash for the cause. And I
frankly believe that if enough of us were willing to put our money
where our mouths seem to be, we could make things happen. I'll
happily support that charge, but I can't lead it.

You might be 71 but you're in touch with the future. This newsgroup is
to a large extent about the past. Silent film, like all great art, is
not about the past -- it's about the future.





Mar de Cortes Baja

www.mardecortesbaja.com <http://www.mardecortesbaja.com/blog>

[Vitaphone]

Having nothing to do with quality of his product, I was disappointed to
write to him early last week with a few questions about a proposed order of
ten titles --- and he's never replied.

I can deal with poor-ish image and sound on a title I'd not be able to see
otherwise, but disregarding customer inquiries is quite another matter.

Still, it's worth a mere $40 gamble -- so here's hoping receipt of payment
will at least be acknowledged!

Jeff

[Tom]

Post by Vitaphone
Having nothing to do with quality of his product, I was disappointed to
write to him early last week with a few questions about a proposed order of
ten titles --- and he's never replied.
I can deal with poor-ish image and sound on a title I'd not be able to see
otherwise, but disregarding customer inquiries is quite another matter.
Still, it's worth a mere $40 gamble -- so here's hoping receipt of payment
will at least be acknowledged!
Jeff

Could he be away from his computer, having health problems, or having
inbox problems? It's happened to the best and worst of us all.

[James Roots]

Post by Vitaphone
Having nothing to do with quality of his product, I was disappointed to
write to him early last week with a few questions about a proposed order of
ten titles --- and he's never replied.

Gee whiz, you only gave the man a week to reply? Not exactly
a paragon of patience, are you?

He could be painstakingly writing a very detailed response to
your queries, and being an oldish guy who probably has some
health issues, it's taking him several days to compose it
for your benefit.

Cut him some slack. Not everybody lives by instant messaging.


Jim
(never dealt with Bill and therefore has no stake in this
discussion one way or another)

[Vitaphone]

If you're so generously cutting slack all around, cut some this way too ---
or doesn't it work that way?

I did make a special point of stating, you'll note, that I wouldn't let his
lack of response keep me from sending him my coin, indicating my general
good will and faith.

(As for patience, the fact that I've been posting here these many years
should speak for just how much I actually do have.)

Jeff

Post by James Roots

Post by Vitaphone
Having nothing to do with quality of his product, I was disappointed to
write to him early last week with a few questions about a proposed order of
ten titles --- and he's never replied.

Gee whiz, you only gave the man a week to reply? Not exactly
a paragon of patience, are you?
He could be painstakingly writing a very detailed response to
your queries, and being an oldish guy who probably has some
health issues, it's taking him several days to compose it
for your benefit.
Cut him some slack. Not everybody lives by instant messaging.
Jim
(never dealt with Bill and therefore has no stake in this
discussion one way or another)

[James Roots]

Post by Vitaphone
If you're so generously cutting slack all around, cut some this way too ---
or doesn't it work that way?
I did make a special point of stating, you'll note, that I wouldn't let his
lack of response keep me from sending him my coin, indicating my general
good will and faith.
(As for patience, the fact that I've been posting here these many years
should speak for just how much I actually do have.)
Jeff

I have no interest in your harping on your amazing generosity
in telling Bill you grandly forgive him for past trespasses
against you. My sole point was that one week is not enough
time before you go around publicly posting complaints about
a lack of response.

Give him at least another week, or better yet, give him
until the end of the month. And if he hasn't responded by
then, you can conclude that he has decided you are not
worth the trouble of doing business together.

Jim

[r***@earthlink.net]

Post by Jerry
Right on,John. And that has been my point from the start. Are there
folks in our hobby lacking in integrity? How much time does it take
to add one column to a spreadsheet or database and add an "E" or "V"
or "G" or "F" or "P" (translation for those not interested in quality
= Excellent, Very Good, Good.......well, you get the idea.......tough
thing, being upfront and honest) ?? I'm just a collector too and
I've traded my share of tapes over the years and I would be
embarrassed to swap a tape from John that was a pristine copy for one
which is barely watchable - unless he knows up front that that's what
he's asked for. If Bill is so anxious to tell you the quality on the
phone, why isn't he willing to spend a couple of hours and put the
same information on his website. Or in his Classic Images ads?

Well, not speaking for Bill personally, but as I have heard from other
video dealers who do or have quality graded their product, that can
also open up a whole new can of worms with various nitpicker customers
who have differences of opinion as to what qualifies "excellent",
"very good", "good", etc. And they then get the same number or more of
whines and complaints from the obsessive compulsives who are never
satisfied. At some point, most dealers get a toughened skin and
develop a take it or leave it for the price attitude, if they don't
say the hell with it and quit entirely.

Going from your own story, Bill sent you 10 or 12 tapes quickly with
the trade, and if you found them all "awful and nearly unwatchable",
as you put it, and considering the charming way you have described it
here, we can only imagine what you said to Bill when you returned the
tapes, he may have gotten his back up and refused to deal with you.
Honestly, you don't come off as that easy to please. I agree from what
you say that he probably should have returned your traded tapes, but
then again we only have your side of the story here, don't we?

Collectors can be a difficult and cranky crew to deal with. They all
are set off by various and different things. I've known some who are
offended by scratches, some by contrast, some by sound, some by
splices. They'll return a tape or film for the silliest reasons (this
can also be fortuitous, I loved a very obsessive collector who used to
sell me beautiful prints from his collection dirt cheap because they
had one splice in the titles, the screaming voices in his head
couldn't allow him to enjoy the film knowing he had missed one frame).
They can also lack a lot of social skills, I remember some collectors
cursing old Charlie Tarbox at Film Classics Exchange as difficult and
unwilling to correct defective prints, then discovering that what
Charlie wouldn't take was bad language, and he would hang up on anyone
who used it when complaining to him and refused to talk to them
afterwards (hmmmm, Aldrich would have had fun with Charlie). I ever
had a probem with Tarbox, and let him know politely when a print had
problems, and he bent over backwards to fix them, thus I have a lot of
neat and rare titles from his catalog where others don't.

If, as you admit, "I just don't have the patience sit through an hour
and a
half of silly plot, often unheard of actors, taped down for the 10th
time from a print that obviously wasn't that good to start with. And
with no soundtrack. Or worse, Schubert's Unfinished Symphony dubbed
in.", might I suggest that you stay within the confines of the major
DVD producers who have the budgets to do better quality presentations,
you'll be missing a lot of titles, but it'll keep you blood-pressure
down.

Post by Jerry
Yeah, I haven't forgotten that he owes me a box of tapes. I really
don't appreciate being stiffed. I didn't mention this before, but
since I have been now labeled as a whiner anyway, I'll tell you the
rest of the story. I sent the tapes. And my list. And THEN was
informed that some of the titles on my list were not part of his
"trading" stock. Ah yes, how nice of you to mention that up front.
And then would he comment on the quality of the other things I had
asked for? Uh-Uh.

Again, this is your side of the story, and you are entitled to it, but
I again repeat that I never had any sort of trouble in dealing with
Bill, but I also was not offended by a less-than-stellar
product,knowing what he was working with, and if there was a serious
problem, I let him know politely and Bill took care of it. Although I
always made sure in advance what the agreed upon deal was before
anything was sent in any direction. Did you actually speak to Bill
before you made this transaction? Had he agreed to send you all the
titles on your list in advance, or did you just send him your tapes
and your list, expecting it to be filled? Those titles that weren't on
Bill's "trading" list may have had restrictions put on them by other
collectors who had traded them to him, like financial renumeration to
them for every copy he made.Communication is always a good thing.

Post by Jerry
Someone else alluded to the fact that I had offered some money for
film restoration and couldn't bother to do it myself - some snide
remark about getting out from behind my keyboard....... OK, here's my
profile - I'm 71 years old, retired and enjoying my leisure. And my
hobbies. I had a quadruple coronary bypass 16 years ago so I might be
living on borrowed time as it is.

Hate to tell you Jerry, but that may be pretty close to the age and
health median for the average Cinephile right now.

I don't have the time or the

Post by Jerry
energy to get into the film restoration business. I would love to be
helpful in some way. If I were a decent pianist, I'd offer to do
soundtracks - but I don't play that well. If I were near an archive,
I'd gladly volunteer whatever talents - computer? - whatever. But I'm
not within even a thousand miles. And so I offered the one thing that
I do have and that's a little extra cash for the cause. And I
frankly believe that if enough of us were willing to put our money
where our mouths seem to be, we could make things happen. I'll
happily support that charge, but I can't lead it.

Then as Rodney Sauer told you, the best thing to do is give that money
to your archive of choice. Don't put any restrictions on it, like
Fonvielle wanted to do with his half-hearted offer of funding, the
archives frequently have to deal with all sorts of silly donor
restrictions on both collections and monetary donations, making all
the grousers then blame them when a donor has given them a film for
preservation but no permission to show it anywhere, or money to
preserve only a specific film that has already been preserved or what-
have-you. The archives really do know best where the money needs to be
spent.

I may have wasted my time and yours here, but since you weren't one of
the standard complainers on the group, I thought I'd respond. Sorry
your experience with Bill Sprague was not a satisfying one , but
unlike what unhappy people like Aldrich thoughtlessly say, he really
isn't out to rip anyone off. If he was, he'd be doing it with a lot
more interesting films than the majority of his list.



RICHARD M ROBERTS

Post by Jerry
Jerry

[Bob Lipton]

***@earthlink.net wrote:


SNIP

Post by r***@earthlink.net
Then as Rodney Sauer told you, the best thing to do is give that money
to your archive of choice. Don't put any restrictions on it, like
Fonvielle wanted to do with his half-hearted offer of funding, the
archives frequently have to deal with all sorts of silly donor
restrictions on both collections and monetary donations, making all
the grousers then blame them when a donor has given them a film for
preservation but no permission to show it anywhere, or money to
preserve only a specific film that has already been preserved or what-
have-you. The archives really do know best where the money needs to be
spent.

Another possibility is to find some archive or group and see if they
have specific projects -- the Vitaphone Project, for example, lets you
pick which film you wish to help restore and offers you a credit. If you
want to see your name up their as a public benefactor, or wish to make
the donation anonymously and bask in the quiet satisfaction of being
able to say "I helped make that possible."

Post by r***@earthlink.net
I may have wasted my time and yours here, but since you weren't one of
the standard complainers on the group, I thought I'd respond. Sorry
your experience with Bill Sprague was not a satisfying one , but
unlike what unhappy people like Aldrich thoughtlessly say, he really
isn't out to rip anyone off. If he was, he'd be doing it with a lot
more interesting films than the majority of his list.

I tried writing this yesterday, but it didn't come out right, so I'll
try here and if it doesn't work, well, I haven't finished my first cup
of coffee yet, so I hope you'll cut me some slack.

I have found that, as you note in the snipped sections, film collectors
are a weird mob. I have never had any of them cheat me, even the one
who forgot to ship me the tapes for a year or the one whose tapes looked
like sixth-generation VHS dupes and were unwatchable. But I have my own
weirdness: if no money is involved or I am making a donation,fine.
However, my personality clicks into commercial mode and it takes a
conscious effort of will to get out of it..... and when money is
involved, I expect people to act professionally, to honor their
contracts or at least notify me when a glitch occurs .... which shows
how out of touch with reality I am, I suppose. It was the fellow who
shipped me the unwatchable tapes, by the way, who was punctilious,
sending me a message that, due to the size of my order he could not ship
it all at once, it would take a while to make the dupes, was this a
problem, etc. etc.

So when I read the initial reply to the enquiry about Mr. Sprague's
operation, I bookmarked it, thinking I'd order a couple of tapes, see if
they averaged watchable and if they did, order the others I wanted. And
then the rant started and I clipped the bookmark, and later restored it.
At $5 a pop -- less if you order in moderate quantity -- this is
clearly NOT a commercial operation. Mr. Sprague is clearly offering
these as a service. So a lot of slack should be cut him and, as you
note, a certain amount of gratitude. Which, given the fact that I will
have to cut a check requires a bit of effort on my part, since that
makes it a commercial operation.

Bob

[Eric Grayson]

Collectors are persnickety? You'd never convince me! Most film
collectors (and by that I mean people who collect motion picture film,
not just DVD), are the worst pickiest people EVER.

One of my great joys in life is to yell "DUPE!" at the top of my lungs
from the booth at Slapsticon. I try to save it for the most pristine,
original Kodascopes. It drives people insane. "What is he talking
about?" Or the collector will come up in the booth and ask me about
why I said it was a dupe, in many cases telling me that he had it
printed from original material in 1975 with fledgling wet gate
technology...

I've been known to shout it down for my own prints, just for
strangeness. But I admit I have a bizarre sense of humor. Seriously,
I'm all for getting the nicest print you have, but sometimes alls ya
got is alls ya got.

The gamut runs from Dennis W. Atkinson:

"I don't care what you run, even if it's boring, so long as it looks
REALLY GOOD on the screen."

To another unnamed collector:

"I don't care how horrible the picture is, but I'll never attend a
convention that shows movies that I've seen before, even on video.
It's got to be rare or I'm not showing up. There are too many movies I
haven't seen to justify me paying money to see something twice."

The greatest example of this I can recall happened when a couple I know
walked out on a picture and the convention organizer stopped them.
"Why did you walk out?" he asked. "It was a film of a donkey relieving
itself," came the answer. "Yes, but it was IB TECH!"

It takes all kinds to make a world.

Eric

[jessica]

Collectors may be bad but audiences are worse . Two best complaints
given to
the late and very great Phil Serling re Cinefest, The ice water
supplied in the back
of the screening room was "too cold" and their room had no balcony
( TO LOOK
OUT ON THE HIGHWAY???).

Jessica

Post by Eric Grayson
Collectors are persnickety? You'd never convince me! Most film
collectors (and by that I mean people who collect motion picture film,
not just DVD), are the worst pickiest people EVER.
One of my great joys in life is to yell "DUPE!" at the top of my lungs
from the booth at Slapsticon. I try to save it for the most pristine,
original Kodascopes. It drives people insane. "What is he talking
about?" Or the collector will come up in the booth and ask me about
why I said it was a dupe, in many cases telling me that he had it
printed from original material in 1975 with fledgling wet gate
technology...
I've been known to shout it down for my own prints, just for
strangeness. But I admit I have a bizarre sense of humor. Seriously,
I'm all for getting the nicest print you have, but sometimes alls ya
got is alls ya got.
"I don't care what you run, even if it's boring, so long as it looks
REALLY GOOD on the screen."
"I don't care how horrible the picture is, but I'll never attend a
convention that shows movies that I've seen before, even on video.
It's got to be rare or I'm not showing up. There are too many movies I
haven't seen to justify me paying money to see something twice."
The greatest example of this I can recall happened when a couple I know
walked out on a picture and the convention organizer stopped them.
"Why did you walk out?" he asked. "It was a film of a donkey relieving
itself," came the answer. "Yes, but it was IB TECH!"
It takes all kinds to make a world.
Eric

[m***@gmail.com]

Also, the hookers cost as much as a two-reeler.

[m***@reelclassicdvd.com]

Thanks for the plug, Richard! Yep, I'll have the table at Cinefest -
hope to see some of you there!

Easy there, Mike. You don't want to reveal ALL the secrets of the
trade, do you?

Mark
www.reelclassicdvd.com

[Jerry]

On Mar 13, 2:44?am, ***@earthlink.net wrote:

<<Honestly, you don't come off as that easy to please.>>

Never said I was. Are you? We'd all like to have first generation
prints from the original negative. But we have to be satisfied with
less. Often. My only point still is, I'd like to know what I'm
getting and whether I can watch it comfortably. If it's a dumb story,
the vendor can't be held responsible for that. But if the copy is so
bad you can't tell the actors from one another, I'm gonna be pissed.

But you've convinced me. We're mostly bitchers. My idea of good and
yours may be miles apart. So why try?

Jerry

[h***@netburner.net]

For the record. I have dealt with Mr. Sprague in the past and he
delivered all that was promised. This may have been facilitated by
the fact I wasn't expecting him to have used 35mm nitrate camera
negatives.

Tommie Hicks

[r***@earthlink.net]

Post by Jerry
<<Honestly, you don't come off as that easy to please.>>
Never said I was. Are you?

Well, I do try to go into this sort of situation with a realistic
attitude. If I'm shelling out hundreds to have a print struck from a
neg by a professional lab, my standards are going to be a bit tougher
than the five-dollar a pop videotape. As Bob Lipton said, Bill Sprague
is obviously not a professional operation, and this was even more
obvious when he was sending out handwritten lists. I would not be
expecting professional transfers and extensive video restoration,
especially if it was a title I knew to be a rare one.


We'd all like to have first generation

Post by Jerry
prints from the original negative. But we have to be satisfied with
less. Often. My only point still is, I'd like to know what I'm
getting and whether I can watch it comfortably. If it's a dumb story,
the vendor can't be held responsible for that. But if the copy is so
bad you can't tell the actors from one another, I'm gonna be pissed.

So are we all, but sometimes we have to weigh the quality with how
badly we want to see a film at all. In my many years doing this, I've
watched everything from pristine 35mm restoration in movie palaces, to
8mm prints on bedroom walls, to fuzzy videotapes, to 35m nitrate
fragments on flatbeds and all there is inbetween. And in all of these
situations, I've seen things I'd never have an opportunity to see any
other way, and may never again.This is 80 year to 100 year old stuff,
not in anyone's general circulation anymore, much of it surviving in a
very haphazard fashion to begin with, and much of it only survivng
because of a lot of strange looneys who cared and made the effort to
save something, you must take what you can get. If you are not willing
to make those compromises, then stay with the big and trusted names,
but you'll have a lot of missing titles on your want to see list.

Post by Jerry
But you've convinced me. We're mostly bitchers. My idea of good and
yours may be miles apart. So why try?

Because we love the movies, and we're hooked, just don't take it out
on the Bill Spragues of the world, they do the best they can. And come
to think of it, when you sent all his tapes back, how was he to know
that you just hadn't copied the lot and returned them for more? Not
saying you did, but stand in Bill's shoes for a moment, I know that
becomes a big problem that forces some dealers to have a no return or
only a replacement of same title policy.

But in any event, there's plenty to watch out there, as I keep trying
to convince these whiners, we really are living in another golden age
of availability, but it's a slender thread keeping it afloat, and
good, appreciative words do go nearly as far as a buck or two. Be nice
or I'll come back again and knock heads together.

Now I'm back to work on this blasted Weiss-O-Rama DVD, you want
pristine quality, I got your pristine quality! Snub Pollard and Marvin
Loback from 35mm nitrate fine-grains! Hal Erickson will be delighted!


RICHARD M ROBERTS

Post by Jerry
Jerry

[m***@reelclassicdvd.com]

Just to jump in with a point of my own:

There are a few independents out here who work awfully hard to put out
an excellent product. I spend countless hours finding the best quality
prints, transferring and authoring. Then, on top of it all, I
commission original scores (which requires more money and many more
hours of re-authoring).

Here are a couple of sales statistics:

OUR GANG COLLECTION Volume 1
Released 2/14/07
Sales: 1

OUR GANG COLLECTION Volume 2
Released 3/9/07
Sales: 0

LADY OF THE LAKE
Released 1/15/07
Sales: 1

THE SPANISH DANCER
Released 8/22/06
Sales: 3

CHARLIE CHAPLIN RARITIES
Released 2/14/07
Sales: 0

I may be slower than some, but after three years of doing this I'm
starting to feel pretty stupid.

Mark

www.reeclassicdvd.com

[Daniela C]

Post by m***@reelclassicdvd.com
There are a few independents out here who work awfully hard to put out
an excellent product. I spend countless hours finding the best quality
prints, transferring and authoring. Then, on top of it all, I
commission original scores (which requires more money and many more
hours of re-authoring).
OUR GANG COLLECTION Volume 1
Released 2/14/07
Sales: 1
OUR GANG COLLECTION Volume 2
Released 3/9/07
Sales: 0
LADY OF THE LAKE
Released 1/15/07
Sales: 1
THE SPANISH DANCER
Released 8/22/06
Sales: 3
CHARLIE CHAPLIN RARITIES
Released 2/14/07
Sales: 0
I may be slower than some, but after three years of doing this I'm
starting to feel pretty stupid.
Mark
www.reeclassicdvd.com

Dear Mark,

I really do appreciate your stuff. Please,please keep on doing it. It's
rather funny to hear from you again because I've bought my first 16mm film
from you,which was Young and Innocent in 1999. :-)

Cheers,

Daniela

[r***@yahoo.com]

Ouch. Anyone who does this does it for love, not money, and I speak
as one of the folks putting on the Slapsticon. My two cents are that
I have dealt with Bill since he started his business. Sometimes the
quality was quite acceptable and occasionally laughable. I was glad
to see that Bill is back in business because if I want to write a
career article about Al Joy or Billy B. Van, Bill is the first one
I'll call. He may have mastered from 8mm, but some of these rarities
only survive in home collector guages. Who else has Universal Andy
Gump comedies?

Bill is a self-effacing guy and would be embarassed by both the knocks
and the praises on this thread. Suffice it to say that you now know
the pros and cons of his little operation. I personally doubt that he
is taking a dime's worth of business from the Kinos, Milestones,
Grapevines and ReelClassics of the world. He has a niche of his own
and God bless him for it.

Rob Farr
www.slapsticon.org
July 19-22 2007

Post by m***@reelclassicdvd.com
There are a few independents out here who work awfully hard to put out
an excellent product. I spend countless hours finding the best quality
prints, transferring and authoring. Then, on top of it all, I
commission original scores (which requires more money and many more
hours of re-authoring).
OUR GANG COLLECTION Volume 1
Released 2/14/07
Sales: 1
OUR GANG COLLECTION Volume 2
Released 3/9/07
Sales: 0
LADY OF THE LAKE
Released 1/15/07
Sales: 1
THE SPANISH DANCER
Released 8/22/06
Sales: 3
CHARLIE CHAPLIN RARITIES
Released 2/14/07
Sales: 0
I may be slower than some, but after three years of doing this I'm
starting to feel pretty stupid.
Mark
www.reeclassicdvd.com

[Frank Flood]

Post by r***@yahoo.com
Ouch. Anyone who does this does it for love, not money, and I speak
as one of the folks putting on the Slapsticon. My two cents are that
I have dealt with Bill since he started his business. Sometimes the
quality was quite acceptable and occasionally laughable. I was glad
to see that Bill is back in business because if I want to write a
career article about Al Joy or Billy B. Van, Bill is the first one
I'll call. He may have mastered from 8mm, but some of these rarities
only survive in home collector guages. Who else has Universal Andy
Gump comedies?
Bill is a self-effacing guy and would be embarassed by both the knocks
and the praises on this thread. Suffice it to say that you now know
the pros and cons of his little operation. I personally doubt that he
is taking a dime's worth of business from the Kinos, Milestones,
Grapevines and ReelClassics of the world. He has a niche of his own
and God bless him for it.
Rob Farrwww.slapsticon.org
July 19-22 2007

I agree with Rob's (and Richard's comments) on Mr. Sprague. He has a
wide variety of offerings and he sends you what you pay for,
promptly. The quality can vary, but that only makes sense given the
material. Further, he is clearly pricing his catalog in order to get
these films out and seen by people. I can't see any reason to beef.

F Flood

[m***@reelclassicdvd.com]

Thanks for the kid words above, Daniela. I appreciate it.

As you see, it didn't take long for my comments to be bowled over and
largely ignored.

"Ouch. Anyone who does this does it for love, not money, and I speak
as one of the folks putting on the Slapsticon..."

Yeah, ouch is right. I've been doing this for love and, hopefully, at
least enough money to keep my venture self supporting. Umm...no.

People just love to bitch about lack of availablity and crappy
quality. Then they happily sit on their hands while those of us who
try to provide a little variety and nice quality sink slowly into
oblivion.

There's an awful lot of hot air here and little else.

Mark
www.reelclassicdvd.com

[h***@netburner.net]

Mark,

I should have piped up earlier, but I was aghast at the sales figures
for those titles. Maybe its because of the dearth of Early Our Gang
and Chaplin material out there.

I am grateful for your efforts to put silent comedy on DVD and you do
a splendid job.

A lot of us silent comedy buffs grew up in the late '60s and early
'70's when we only had three or four TV channels and allowance
depleting home movie companies. If a classic comedy or Youngson comp
was being shown on KWGN, a lot more people were exposed to it. This is
probably why middle-age silent comedy buffs are more aparrant than
young ones. This may be because there are so many entertainment
venues now and silent comedy is getting lost in the shuffle. How can
we compete with millions of people who absolutely love watching race
cars go around an oval 250 times. On the movie side, tits and car
crashes dominate. I would love to see a show on TCM (the Sunday 10pm
to midnight slot would be nice) of nothing but silent comedy, much
like the old DEAD COMICS SOCIETY on the old HA network. What I have
learned is all you have to do is expose people to silent film comedy
and they love it. Its a wonderful wish but as my Grandpa used to say,
"Shit in one hand and wish in the other and see which hand fills up
first".

I am convinced that if Silent Comedy had more exposure on TV, there
could be a very substantial revival of it.

Tommie Hicks

Post by m***@reelclassicdvd.com
as one of the folks putting on the Slapsticon..."
Yeah, ouch is right. I've been doing this for love and, hopefully, at
least enough money to keep my venture self supporting. Umm...no.
People just love to bitch about lack of availablity and crappy
quality. Then they happily sit on their hands while those of us who
try to provide a little variety and nice quality sink slowly into
oblivion.
There's an awful lot of hot air here and little else.
Markwww.reelclassicdvd.com

[m***@reelclassicdvd.com]

Hey Tommie,

Thanks very much. I really appreciate your support!

I agree, exposure is the thing. I'm encouraged when I spot younger
people - especially kids - at venues like Cinefest. But there's no
doubt that silent film is a niche market at best and will continue to
be so. It sure doesn't help when Cablevision pulls the plug on TCM
either, as they did in my area.

Mark
www.reelclassicdvd.com

[r***@earthlink.net]

Post by m***@reelclassicdvd.com
Hey Tommie,
Thanks very much. I really appreciate your support!
I agree, exposure is the thing. I'm encouraged when I spot younger
people - especially kids - at venues like Cinefest. But there's no
doubt that silent film is a niche market at best and will continue to
be so. It sure doesn't help when Cablevision pulls the plug on TCM
either, as they did in my area.
Markwww.reelclassicdvd.com

Speaking of Cinefest Mark, are you going to have a dealers table there
this year (hows that for a little plug to help you sell stuff)?

RICHARD M ROBERTS

[r***@yahoo.com]

I didn't mean to ignore you with a flippant "Ouch". I too was
appalled by those sales figures. I bought some of your discs when
Bruce Lawton was selling them at Slapsticon and can recommend
ReelClassicDVD to anyone. The video quality is top-notch and Ben
Model's accompaniment is always terrific. Being a lifelong government
employee, I've don't even know what the word "profit" means, but I
agree with others that exposure is the key. Hopefully some film
journal or mainstream newspaper will discover your catalog, write a
few positive reviews and things will take off. In the meantime, best
of luck at Cinefest.

Rob Farr
www.slapsticon.org
July 19-22
Arlington VA

Post by m***@reelclassicdvd.com
Thanks for the kid words above, Daniela. I appreciate it.
As you see, it didn't take long for my comments to be bowled over and
largely ignored.
"Ouch. Anyone who does this does it for love, not money, and I speak
as one of the folks putting on the Slapsticon..."
Yeah, ouch is right. I've been doing this for love and, hopefully, at
least enough money to keep my venture self supporting. Umm...no.
People just love to bitch about lack of availablity and crappy
quality. Then they happily sit on their hands while those of us who
try to provide a little variety and nice quality sink slowly into
oblivion.
There's an awful lot of hot air here and little else.
Markwww.reelclassicdvd.com

[m***@reelclassicdvd.com]

No, no, Rob. I didn't take it that way at all. I only used your "Ouch"
as a springboard for my rant. Obsolutely no offense taken.

Thanks to you also for the thumbs up. I'll try to keep
Reelclassicdvd.com going as long as I can. Sure glad it ain't my day
job, otherwise I'd be writing this from a cardboard box in the woods!

Mark
www.reelclassicdvd.com

[James Roots]

Post by r***@earthlink.net
But in any event, there's plenty to watch out there, as I keep trying
to convince these whiners, we really are living in another golden age
of availability, but it's a slender thread keeping it afloat, and
good, appreciative words do go nearly as far as a buck or two. Be nice
or I'll come back again and knock heads together.

Good example: a dozen years ago I begged DJ Turner of the
Canadian Archives to lend me his VHS of STORY OF GOSTA
BERLING. He demurred because he felt the material was so
poor, it was not worth sharing even with a fellow buff.
He did lend me his tape of MABUSE, with warnings, and it
was so murky and choppy that I was left with the impression
the film itself stinks.

Five months ago I enjoyed Kino's beautiful restoration of
BERLING, and I am currently watching the amazingly clean
Kino of MABUSE this week.

Post by r***@earthlink.net
Now I'm back to work on this blasted Weiss-O-Rama DVD, you want
pristine quality, I got your pristine quality! Snub Pollard and Marvin
Loback from 35mm nitrate fine-grains! Hal Erickson will be delighted!

Snub and Marvin?! Please, Richard, leave it murky, choppy,
and unwatchable!


Jim

[Jerry]

<<And come
to think of it, when you sent all his tapes back, how was he to know
that you just hadn't copied the lot and returned them for more? >>

Now, THAT'S a laugh. One more copy down of these tapes and I'd have
had a dozen tapes of white noise. This was pre-digital era stuff.

[John Aldrich]

Post by r***@earthlink.net
They can also lack a lot of social skills, I remember some collectors
cursing old Charlie Tarbox at Film Classics Exchange as difficult and
unwilling to correct defective prints, then discovering that what
Charlie wouldn't take was bad language, and he would hang up on anyone
who used it when complaining to him and refused to talk to them
afterwards (hmmmm, Aldrich would have had fun with Charlie).

Naah. I reserve the expletives for the true horse's asses amongst us,
such as yourself.

I knew Charlie Tarbox well enough and though he was a tad eccentric,
he was always nice to me, so there would have been no reason to curse
at him or about him.

Pretty funny that...you lecturing others about social skills.
Helloooo??

--John A.

[John Aldrich]

Post by r***@earthlink.net
Sorry
your experience with Bill Sprague was not a satisfying one , but
unlike what unhappy people like Aldrich thoughtlessly say, he really
isn't out to rip anyone off. If he was, he'd be doing it with a lot
more interesting films than the majority of his list.

Oh, so it is okay to steal, as long as you don't steal anything TOO
valuable? Thanks for the lesson in Richard Roberts' ethics, although
I have seen enough of it personally that it really wasn't necessary.

--John A.

[Randall Coleman]

Post by John Aldrich

Post by Fred
On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 22:47:48 GMT, John Aldrich

Post by John Aldrich

Post by r***@earthlink.net
I was going to happily ignore the whinings of this spoiled rotten
group of babies again

<SNIP!>

Post by r***@earthlink.net
RICHARD M ROBERTS

Fuck you.
--John (who is sure he speaks for many on here)

Richard made a lot of very specific points and that's all you can say?
I've seen silent films with more words. Come on, what specifics do
you disagree with and why? Is it just that you took the "spoiled
rotten group of babies" line to be a personal insult? If so, please
point out one silent release on video (from anyone, anywhere, any
time), where there weren't complaints. I'm sure there must have been
one, but I can't think of what it may have been.

Since you asked, Richard's insulting, smug and arrogant post is not
worthy of any response beyond the one I gave. Only a jerk of the
first order would be overbearing to the point of telling people that
"None of you are actually entitled to see any of this stuff".
As far as Bill Sprague and his like are concerned, the ones who are
all over ebay and the rest of the internet with garbage copies of
vintage films, it would be one thing if their ads had consumer
warnings about the dismal quality of their offerings. But, they
don't...which is deceptive at best and dishonest at worst.
I haven't dealt with Sprague specifically, but I know people who have
and I know his type. I have had people tell me outright lies about
what their source material was. And then when they are called on it,
the standard response is: "well, this material is rare, where else are
you going to see it?" As if that justifies the deceptive practices.
If they are motivated by the desire to share...then what is the
problem with being upfront about what the quality is?
I didn't see any disclaimers on Sprague's website, which strikes me as
deceptive and bogus.
Also, Richard predictably ignores the blatent rip offs of other
people's work that is offered on Sprague's website. Stealing is
stealing, no matter what kind of altruistic face you want to put on
it.
Of course Roberts defends him. Birds of a feather and all that.
I certainly don't need Richard to lecture me on why I should be happy
with DVDs that are made from unwatchable multigenerational VHS dupes
or to tell me that I am not entitled to expect anything more. He can
shove that right where it belongs.
-John A.

Caveat emptor

Randall Coleman

[Eric Stott]

Post by John Aldrich

Post by John Aldrich
Fuck you.

--John (who is sure he speaks for many on here)

You are going in the killfile IMMEDIATELY

--Stott (who is sure he speaks for many on here)

[Lloyd Fonvielle]

If you want to know why silent film is a marginalized interest, and why
it's not attracting new fans in the numbers it should, all you need to

Post by r***@earthlink.net
None of you are actually entitled to see any of this stuff.
You are all really lucky to be seeing so much now for so cheap.
This could all change for the worse tomorrow just because you whine
like spoiled infants.
A quote I had in a conversation this week with one of the silent video
producers and distributors who even you whiners admire (and who will
remain nameless for obvious reasons), "There's no money in this, you
have to deal with a lot of jerks in the business, and the fans don't
even appreciate it, I'm getting close to chucking it and going back to
writing books".

In short, things are the way they are, they're not going to change,
except perhaps for the worse, and if you don't like it, screw you. An
attitude worthy of the folks who brought you the Edison Trust and of the
Biograph executives who told Griffith he couldn't make feature-length
films and of the Hollywood industry geniuses who tried to stop the VCR.

Fortunately, silent films have an intrinsic magic which will create new
audiences in spite of attitudes like this.


Mar de Cortes Baja

www.mardecortesbaja.com <http://www.mardecortesbaja.com/blog>

[Shush]

Post by Hal Erickson
Quality varies, but
generally quite good, and yes there are
musical tracks.

The quality I've seen varied from adequate to horrendous, and the
only things that had musical tracks were videos he'd bootlegged from
other video companies. I never ordered from the scumbag again.



--Shush--

[b***@gmail.com]

Post by Bruce Calvert
Bill Sprague's catalog of silent and sound PD videos and DVDs is posted
online now at http://vtvideoclassic.com/silent.html . His prices are very
cheap, and he does have some rare films. Has anyone ordered anything from
him? Do his silents have musical tracks?
--
Bruce Calvert
--
Visit the Silent Film Still Archive
http://www.silentfilmstillarchive.com

RICHARD ROBERTS IS THE BEST PERSON WHO HAS EVER POSTED HERE THERE IS SO MUCH BULLSHIT POSTED BY SOME OF THE OTHERS INCLUDING JERRY RUTLEDGE AND LLOYD FONVIELLE SHUSH IS A WORTHLESS ASSHOLE HIDING BEHIND A NON DE PLUME WE WISH NOT TO HEAR FROM RUTLEDGE ANYMORE WE THINK THE OTHER JERK IS NO LONGER WITH US. BILL SPRAGUE IS STILL DOING BUSINESS AT http://wwww.moviechronic.com HIS CONTACT EMAIL IS ***@gmail.com. THIS IS A LEGITIMATE BUSINESS AND NO NEGATIVE COMMENTS ARE TOLERATED BY ANYONE WE ARE STILL TRYING TO IMPROVE THE CAUSE OF THE PRODUCTION OF PUBLIC DOMAIN MOVIES BOTH FEATURES AND SHORT SUBJECTS . WE HOPE TO HEAR FROM YOU AT OUR NEW ADDRESS

[b***@gmail.com]

Post by Bruce Calvert
Bill Sprague's catalog of silent and sound PD videos and DVDs is posted
online now at http://vtvideoclassic.com/silent.html . His prices are very
cheap, and he does have some rare films. Has anyone ordered anything from
him? Do his silents have musical tracks?
--
Bruce Calvert
--
Visit the Silent Film Still Archive
http://www.silentfilmstillarchive.com

BILL SPRAGUE IS STILL DOING BUSINESS At http://www.moviechronic.com Our contact address is ***@gmail.com NO NEGATIVE COMMENTS ARE TOLERATED

[b***@gmail.com]

Post by Bruce Calvert
Bill Sprague's catalog of silent and sound PD videos and DVDs is posted
online now at http://vtvideoclassic.com/silent.html . His prices are very
cheap, and he does have some rare films. Has anyone ordered anything from
him? Do his silents have musical tracks?
--
Bruce Calvert
--
Visit the Silent Film Still Archive
http://www.silentfilmstillarchive.com

JOHN ALDRICH IS FULL OF BALONEY ALWAYS LISTEN TO RICHARD ROBERTS

[j***@gmail.com]

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