Discussion:
Silent Film Sources - ???
(too old to reply)
Silent Film Fan Guy
2014-02-11 21:22:24 UTC
Permalink
I have been a fan of silent films for a while.
Many silent films I find on DVDs seem to share a problem:
they have been edited to the extent that different DVDs of the same movie may have fifteen minutes or more of missing footage, and each DVD seems to be a bit different. They are also often blurred.

Here is my question:
the DVDs have been edited/copped up/altered/blurred in all too many cases,
so I don't want them at all, period.

Instead:
I am willing to pay a Public domain Film footage company to sell me copies of the unedited originals, which also seem to be called masters. I simply want to see the complete, un-blurred originals, period.
The problem is that the ones I have found only seem to want to sell to broadcasters and other large organizations, not individuals or small fan clubs.

Seeking:
the names/web sites of places that sell copies of "masters"
I want to avoid the sorts of places that sell blurred DVDs to consumers on Amazon, BN, etc., they are the problem, not the solution.
t***@aol.com
2014-02-13 19:16:20 UTC
Permalink
Good luck with that. The problem is most of the negatives, the original source material, is long gone. What has survived are positive copies of the films which were sent out to be shown, but censors from each state or large city made cuts of things that they didn't approve of and thats why you get different versions of the same film. The bluriness can be from different causes, some are blurred because they're copies of copies. It can also occur because of the transfer process. Many of the dvd's out there were transferred several years ago by projecting the film onto a small screen with mirrors to a digital camera. New transfers are being done by frame by frame and some with high def equipment but it is more expensive and few companies out there are going to spend money on new transfers of films that are already available. It just isn't economically feasible. But the high def transfers are still limited by the quality of the source material they're using for the transfer.

Public Domain Film Footage Companies aren't the place to find full length films. They mainly have shorter clips. Most of the films are in archives like the Library of Congress, The George Eastman House, UCLA Film Archives, etc. or in the hands of private collectors. You can order prints from the Library of Congress but it is very expensive. Good luck getting them from another archive. Few collectors will be willing to give you their films either. I collect silent films and have quite a collection. It covers 8mm, Super8, 9.5mm, 16mm and a few 35mm nitrate prints. I have been transfering some of the more rare ones to dvd and offer some of them on Ebay. They are not "restored". They are copies of my personal collection warts and all. I do add a royalty free music track. Most of them are films you're not going to see for sale anywhere else. The current films I am having transferred are some Pathe 9.5mm Hallroom Boys Comedies. They are being transferred in the UK and should arrive in about a month. Once they do I still have to add the music track. They were originally two reelers but Pathe cut them down to one reel or less. Unfortunately that's all that survived. The two reel versions are gone. Personally I'm sick of seeing Charlie Chaplain, Buster Keaton, Harold Lloyd over and over which is what you get at most festivals. There are alot of other silent films that have survived and I want to see them, even if they are partial prints or not pristine. That's why I am putting copies of my collection on Ebay, so that others can see them too. I wish other collectors would do the same.
Silent Film Fan Guy
2014-02-13 21:31:33 UTC
Permalink
I have found a few places that sell such movies, but they do not seem to post images from what they are selling, e.g., HeavenFireInc.com and RetroFilmVault.com
My concerns include blurriness and murkiness. I am willing to deal with British or Australian companies if they have reasonably high-quality copies....
d***@aol.com
2014-02-22 07:42:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Silent Film Fan Guy
I have found a few places that sell such movies, but they do not seem to post images from what they are selling, e.g., HeavenFireInc.com and RetroFilmVault.com
My concerns include blurriness and murkiness. I am willing to deal with British or Australian companies if they have reasonably high-quality copies....
Dear Silent Film Fan Guy,

If you are dealing with blurry and murky copies, I would have to guess that you are obtaining editions from outfits that are using second-rate source materials and giving them second-rate processing. Since the basic sources for so many of the silent films available on DVD are in the public domain, this is one area of collecting where you get what you pay for, and cheap is cheap for good reasons.

I have been producing high quality editions of silent films since the 1980s. My current publisher is Flicker Alley (www.flickeralley.com), and before that, for twenty years, Image Entertainment. They are not blurry, they are not murky, and we spend money on high quality digital transfers and good music. They also are not cheap, because the market is small and we don't cheat on quality in preparation. But if you buy these, or Kino Lorber's, or Milestone's, you will not be disappointed unless your expectations are totally out of line with what the media is able to deliver. All are sold by amazon.com, and if you cannot afford new copies or if a particular title is out of print, they also sell second hand.

David Shepard
Blackhawk Films and Film Preservation Associates
hislop
2014-02-23 02:38:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Silent Film Fan Guy
I have been a fan of silent films for a while.
they have been edited to the extent that different DVDs of the same movie may have fifteen minutes or more of missing footage, and each DVD seems to be a bit different. They are also often blurred.
the DVDs have been edited/copped up/altered/blurred in all too many cases,
so I don't want them at all, period.
I am willing to pay a Public domain Film footage company to sell me copies of the unedited originals, which also seem to be called masters. I simply want to see the complete, un-blurred originals, period.
The problem is that the ones I have found only seem to want to sell to broadcasters and other large organizations, not individuals or small fan clubs.
the names/web sites of places that sell copies of "masters"
I want to avoid the sorts of places that sell blurred DVDs to consumers on Amazon, BN, etc., they are the problem, not the solution.
I find this premise a little odd. The more recent silent releases on
DVD and bluray have been produced seemingly as best as possible. You
can find old VHS tapes and DVDs made from inferior sources, as you can
with many movies, not just old ones.

Many film sources can appear blurry or missing footage, or may come from
those paper sources that were only meant for copyright reasons.
The recent Keystones release of Chaplin films were made from various
sources to maximise both quality and content.

You might be repeating the research that these companies have already
done maybe better.

Though you could go down a road others might have missed.

Though I agree some recent release have been inferior, there was a
company I was very disappointed with, called Sunrise Silents who
obviously did inferior mastering. Maybe I made a mistake getting PAL
copies instead of NTSC, though I was reassured by them it made no
difference. I try to avoid NTSC converted to PAL as much as possible.
There is an attitude that low quality looking film sources are okay to
be given low quality mastering. One of the hazards of finding old movies.

I wonder if anyone has seen a decent copy of Ella Cinders.
Bill Sprague
2018-05-22 16:54:12 UTC
Permalink
http://www.moviechronic.comisyouranswer
Bill Sprague
2018-05-22 16:54:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Silent Film Fan Guy
I have been a fan of silent films for a while.
they have been edited to the extent that different DVDs of the same movie may have fifteen minutes or more of missing footage, and each DVD seems to be a bit different. They are also often blurred.
the DVDs have been edited/copped up/altered/blurred in all too many cases,
so I don't want them at all, period.
I am willing to pay a Public domain Film footage company to sell me copies of the unedited originals, which also seem to be called masters. I simply want to see the complete, un-blurred originals, period.
The problem is that the ones I have found only seem to want to sell to broadcasters and other large organizations, not individuals or small fan clubs.
the names/web sites of places that sell copies of "masters"
I want to avoid the sorts of places that sell blurred DVDs to consumers on Amazon, BN, etc., they are the problem, not the solution.
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2020-01-05 08:05:00 UTC
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